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 Post subject: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 728
It just seems abusive. (last turn)

http://www.battledexgame.com/game.php?game_id=25611


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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:43 am 
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Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 176
Location: Germany
It's correct as it happend. In the round before you bought your fighter, moved him and he fired on the last tick (and moved on last tick, because firing and moving are not simultaneously displayed, the fighter moves after firing, but it's the same tick i think). So he can fire again on tick 33 and then on 66.
The arties fired on the 4th movement of the fighter, so its on tick 66 (all 3 arties fired on same tick i think). So they can fire on 16 and then on 66 again.
So it comes, that both arties fire on 16, fighter fires on 33, and all 3 units on 66 again. So it's just the order of which unit fires first on same tick, that made you see the arties firing 4 times before fighter gets his 2nd shot. Bad luck, but correct.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:59 am 
Battle Dex Testing Team
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:32 am
Posts: 1271
Location: Slovakia
seriously geral, this was explained to you many times. There is probably even no luck in this ( denyo says that all were at 66, but that doesnt have to be true ) . Are you writing this just to whine again, but in a way thats not immediately seen as whining? If you though it was a bug , you would write it into issues and not here. So you are just whining.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:42 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 728
It DOESN'T need to be bug - it's VERY counter-intuitive that a unit that can fire twice in a round, will fire ALL its shots before a units that fires 3 times in a round fires its SECOND shot.

Ticks can explain it, luck can be bad, but it's simply not fair. And not hard to understand why, either.

Basically due to how the game went, those arts went into a state where they fired before anyone else - which made it almost impossible to kill them. This is something that really ought to be different somehow, units should reset sometimes or something, as if a unit gets primed this way, it effectively becomes "better" than other units on the field. Plus new units are always worse, too.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:40 pm 
Battle Dex Team

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:02 pm
Posts: 1222
Not a bug, as you no and Fewar and Denyo explain. However, I agree it does seem counterintuitive if you look at each turn by itslef. It is not counterintuitive if you view the turns as unified.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 728
chrism, like I said, the units get into a state where they are effectively better than the other similar units in the field.

Basically they ALWAYS fire first ... so you get these weird games where almost every unit of your opponent is firing before any of yours, you lose everything and don't even get a chance to fire back.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:33 pm
Posts: 245
Well, I guess this officially puts to rest my fear that the best players in this game are keeping track of firing ticks, since this concept still seems to have Geral baffled at times.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 728
doja, the concept does not baffle me, what baffles me is the end result, where some units get a further "buff", because through chance they ended up firing in the first ticks, and will go on firing on the first ticks unless there's a stop in the fight where they only get to fire in the closing ticks.

I do believe trying to keep track of ticks is not fun, so the concept should not produce counter intuitive things like the arts firing all their shots before a fighter gets to fire his second shot.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:33 pm
Posts: 245
So Geral, are you saying that you would prefer if firing ticks did not carry over?

1) I would almost bet my life this isn't going to be changed.

2) Firing ticks carrying over is very important to the power of an artillery line. If your artillery line has been in place for one or more turns without firing, you can rest assured that as soon as a unit walks into range it will get blasted, regardless if this happens before or after tick 50 (when an artillery would normally first fire).

I agree with you that keeping track of firing ticks is both boring and annoying. I'm honestly glad that somebody as dedicated as yourself does not keep track, so that I don't feel like I need to either.

Now, there is one important point to be made here about things appearing counter-intuitive. Let's say in the example you noted in this thread, that what actually happened was that your fighter lost the coin flip against both artillerys. I have posted before that I believe in coin flip situations if one unit is inherently faster, they should automatically win the coin flip. Since a fighter fires more times in a turn (and moves faster) than an arty, it should automatically be awarded coin flip victory. Doing this would reduce instances where things seem counter-intuititve, because our intuition tells us that faster units will act first, as was the case in your situation here.

@ Chrism - Given any more thought to faster moving units auto-winning movement tie-breaks over slower moving units, and faster shooting units auto-winning shooting tie-breaks over slower shooting units?

@ Geral - What do you think about faster units auto-winning tie-breaks over slower units?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 arts fire 4 times before fighter fires twice?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 728
I think yours is a good solution, for the reason you stated - at least in the coin flips the faster units will win as expected.


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