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 Post subject: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:33 pm
Posts: 245
I sometimes work a pretty busy work schedule and can't make tournaments. Today, on Sunday, I finally have the day off work. Sunday should also be the most common day of the week most people have off work. After watching the Raiders lose a tough game in the morning, I get online about 2:00pm PST. Needless to say I am shocked to not see a single tournament scheduled from this point on in the day.

This game simply needs more tournaments, and I'm not lobbying for free tournaments in particular. Tournaments are fun, and when you don't schedule tournaments you risk losing the audience who plays this game for the tournament aspect. I'm sitting here with around 225 points and 10 packs on my day off from work and you fail to collect anything from me. I'm not yet favorable to the Competitive Play Search, so the only way to collect my points is to run tournaments.

If you are having trouble filling tournaments, come up with some 5 or 10 point tournaments. But there needs to be a tournament every two hours, whether it fills or not. FFA and Random Teams games do not come up much during free search, so you risk losing this audience if you don't hold these tournaments multiple times per day. Again, you also risk losing the tournament audience. I would say I fall into both these categories.

Option 1: Run many tournaments, collect my points and $$$

Option 2: Have me log on, see there are no more tournaments left for the day, play a game or two of free play, then play my PS3 or watch sports.


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:15 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:47 pm
Posts: 118
Yeah i agree, more tournaments. Maybe not one every two hours, but definitely at least 5 or so a day.


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:45 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:08 am
Posts: 106
dojadoug wrote:

If you are having trouble filling tournaments, come up with some 5 or 10 point tournaments. But there needs to be a tournament every two hours, whether it fills or not. FFA and Random Teams games do not come up much during free search, so you risk losing this audience if you don't hold these tournaments multiple times per day. Again, you also risk losing the tournament audience. I would say I fall into both these categories.


also agree with this , you could even have it were you charge 1 point to enter and have prizes of either points or cards depending on the amount of people on it = say start of with prizes of say 3 /2 / 1/ but if you have over say 10 people then the prizes go up depending on the amout of enteries , you keep 2 points for every 5 entries .
im fron the uk and at the moment there is not alot going on for myself in my time zone and , even though ive joined premiun , im not going to enter into the bigger tournys or spend more money into this game till
a) i learn to play right so i have a slim chanceof getting somewere in the tourny :lol:
b) i see if there is going to be more going on


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:33 am 
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 8:10 am
Posts: 213
I agree. Something has to be done.


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:33 pm
Posts: 245
11/13: Long day of work. Got online at 9:30pm PST. No more tournaments for the day. Played one free game then logged off.

11/14: Got online at 6:30pm PST. Entered the 7:00pm tourney. The cost was 25 points and 3 decks. It didn't fill. Going to a friend's house now.


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:30 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:35 am
Posts: 33
You can't have prize pools that scale otherwise it would be considered gambling, I remember few of my games back then having to change the prize structure because of this. You have a situation where players are happy because it started and theres overlay, Players are a bit unhappy/mad because the prize pool should be bigger/much bigger if it scaled or the tourny does not start at all.

I don't think the prize entry is whats prohibiting it at all there simply isn't enough players willing to play tournies, I've been part of smaller communities and the tournies fire off at a much greater rate even tho the cost of entry is usually around 5 dollars or more for constructed on avg, here its about a $1.50. Changing it to .50 cents or a dollar will maybe bring you a few more runners, but not enough to make it actually go at a regular rate. The biggest thing is the community disconnect in gneral because of how the chat lobby is set up.


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:19 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:08 am
Posts: 106
you may be right '' foreveralone '' . i just hope something gets sorted out or all these new people trying out the game will not stay.
i loged on last night , found 2 games to play in about 10 mins of waiting so just loged off and played something else
just loged on now , only 1 in chat but 25 log'ed on to the game ?


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:33 pm
Posts: 245
ForeverAlone wrote:
I don't think the prize entry is whats prohibiting it at all there simply isn't enough players willing to play tournies, I've been part of smaller communities and the tournies fire off at a much greater rate even tho the cost of entry is usually around 5 dollars or more for constructed on avg, here its about a $1.50. Changing it to .50 cents or a dollar will maybe bring you a few more runners, but not enough to make it actually go at a regular rate. .


Not disagreeing with your statement, but I see the problem as being fixable in several ways. Here are some more points:

1) When you only have two tourneys a day, its very unlikely that a person logging on at a random time convenient for them will find a tournament starting in the next 30-90 minutes.

2) There should be technically six different types of tourneys (one vs one, random teams, FFA - each with a sealed version and a constructed version). Secondly, each of these six types falls into a different cost range, generally "free", "25 points", or "high" ( I call anything over 25 points high).

To connect this with ForeverAlone's point, 25 points is roughly $1.50-$2.00. Because the cheapest tournament other than "free" is currently 25 points, this cost should be labeled a low cost. To any potential player who doesn't consider this cost low, this game will not appeal to them because there isn't a price range for their situation. Granted this isn't technically a gambling site, but many online poker sites may rake 50 cents per player per game. This game definitely needs 5/10/15 point tournaments.

So when you look at it, a number of players will log on and see: 1) no tournaments soon 2) a tournament soon which is too expensive for them (and none after it anytime soon) 3) a tournament which isn't their type of tourney (maybe they don't like sealed, or constructed, or one vs one, or random teams, of FFA).

--------------------------------------

Here is how I picture it for others, and it would definitely work this way for myself. If I logged on and saw a tournament I had an interest in entering in the next 30-90 minutes, I would probably stay logged on and either play a game or two first to warm up or simply wait in the lobby and chat (if the tournament was very soon). After playing that tournament, if there was another tournament I had interest in I would probably play a few more games or watch replays and then enter the next tournament. For "tournament players" like myself, keeping a tournament in sight gives me a reason to practice and stay online. When there isn't a tournament anywhere on the horizon, its more discouraging and I tend to log off.

This game currently does not provide a wide range of frequent tournaments at various costs to keep all the various groups of players on here to stay interested. If the game management wants this game to go down the drain, keep up this current tournament schedule of two per day. I can promise I my membership will not last long at this rate, since I can't even find a tournament to spend my points on.


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:33 pm
Posts: 245
I hope its apparent that I really like this game and am trying to not simply complain but offer useful suggestions.

Today I work from around 2:00pm-8:00pm PST. The two tournaments are at 12:00pm and 7:00pm PST. Being at work requires getting ready ahead of time and driving so I really don't feel comfortable entering a tournament when I need to be somewhere in two hours or less. Too bad there wasn't a 10:00am or 11:00am tournament. It would be nice to be excited to return home after work to play in a tournament, but that is also not available. Too bad there isn't a 9:00pm or 10:00pm tournament.

Players of this game live in all different time zones and have random schedules. The only way to accommodate this random assortment of schedules is to have many tournaments.

Ever notice how for many free tournaments, a large number of players will enter but not very many will show? This shows several things:

1) There are players who want to play tournaments (at least if they are free)

2) The notion that players can and will arrange their personal schedules around one or two tournaments a day is completely false.

3) Players log online looking for a tournament, enter the next one that is free, but are unable to make it back because it was so far in the future they either forgot about it or it conflicted with their work/personal schedule.

People are impulsive. If I walk into a store and see an attractive item at a good price, I may want to impulsively buy it. But if the store clerk tells me, "You can buy this item at this price, but you will have to come back at exactly 12:00pm tomorrow," the odds of me returning are quite low. I may not be able to make this time. I may not care enough about the item or the price to put in the effort to return. Or perhaps my original impulse to buy the item has faded and I no longer really care about having it.

When a potential player is sitting at home, and gets the impulse to play a Battle Dex tournament, there needs to be a tournament shortly available for that player to play in.

I'm worried that the thought process amongst the game creators is: "We don't have a very big population, so if we only have several tournaments we can try to squeeze what population is available into those few tournaments in order to make them bigger."

I think this is very flawed, and it would be better to have many small tournaments and let them grow over time. Players can handle playing a 4-8 person tournament while we wait for the population to grow. I've played in a random teams tournament of only 8 people and my teammate kept raving about how fun the tournament was. He didn't care that there were only two rounds. But if you don't create these small tournaments for the core group of players to play in, then you will lose the core group of tournament players because there is nothing for them to play.

In the eyes of game management, I should be the near ideal player. I'm willing to spend points on tournaments. I'm willing to play (and possibly lose) the best players this game has to offer. I'm willing to play any game type. I'm probably one of the few players on here who will pay points to play any format of tournament, yet game management is making nothing available to me on a daily basis.

I will offer one more suggestion in case the hold-up is a matter of tournament cost versus prizes awarded:

- Run many free tournaments, especially of random teams and FFA, where the prize is as minimal as you can imagine. In combination with this, adjust the rating system so that wins and losses in tournaments have a greater influence on your rating, and where winning a tournament gives an even greater boost.

A key element of attracting players to this game is the rating system. But if you look at the ratings, most players do not have very many games logged in Random Teams or FFA. Its hard to imagine that this game is currently attracting the market of players who prefers FFA to any other format, because FFA games and tournaments largely aren't available.

I would enter, and I believe many other players would too, free tournaments with no prize simply for: 1) the fun of a tournament; 2) the fun of playing FFA or Random Teams for once; 3) the ability to greater influence my player rating

Its very simple: Lots of cheap tournaments of various types will attract more players. When more players are online, there will be a greater population of people searching for free play games or coop games before, in between, and after tournaments. The tournaments attract players and give them a thrill, which encourages them and excites them to play more. I personally find that with this lack of tournaments, I have much less desire to do free play or coop play, and I've been one of the names that hasn't been online nearly as much lately.


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 Post subject: Re: More Tournaments
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:15 pm
Posts: 575
doug, I very much agree with many of your points, and we went back and forth on the tournament schedule, prices, prize levels, and other matters before release. I have argued that there should be something that is the opposite of Super Satellite (eg. Micro). This would have a lower price, low prize, and higher frequency, and it would not need to be tied into the pro circuit.

I think the original idea was that people could start Sit-N-Go tournaments if they wanted to play tournaments at random times. But people are not playing Sit-N-Go's, so something needs to be done here. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I think it is obvious there needs to be some adjustments here since many pay tournaments have been cancelled and I'm sure we will be discussing this very soon. Your feedback is much appreciated. I think it was difficult to predict what would happen, so part of getting things going was to create a schedule and go with it. But now it is time to decide if adjustments are needed to improve turnout. During beta, every tournament would run because they were free, and every free tournament after release has had no problems. So obviously people like to play tournaments, but we need to maximize turnout. Today's free tournament had 83 registrations, but only 18 showed up. It would be much better if there was always a tournament available around the time you sign on, even if it were a small one. What would you think about a tournament every 3 hours that had a 15 point entry cost? Just throwing ideas out there, any other thoughts on this would be very much appreciated.


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