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 Post subject: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:02 pm 
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I have two major issues with sealed deck tournaments.

1) You use the same deck throughout tourney. Whether we make fun of it or think its stupid that Geral quits tournaments early when he gets a bad deck, this should not be happening. I want to know that each game, I have a 50% chance of having a better deck and a 50% chance of having a worse deck. If I get a horrible deck, I want to know that all I have to do is somehow pull off one win in order to get a new draw.

Think about a big tournament with 20 players, most of whom are good. If we all keep our same decks, I only have a 1/20 chance of having the best deck. If I get stuck in the bottom 50% of deck draws from the start, even if I win a game I'm going to eventually run into one of those great deck draws held by a good player. The initial deck draw affects too much of a sealed tournament from the outset. This needs to be changed.

2) I played a Grand Sealed Satellite the other night, and was pleasantly surprised to find that for this larger prize tournament 5 sealed decks were used instead of 3. I thought, "wow, this is a great concept, because with five sealed decks, players will get a better selection of cards, and the better player will win more often, because the odds of getting a HORRIBLE draw are much less likely. Well, in an even bigger tournament, the qualifier to get into the Sealed Pro Circuit Event, I was SHOCKED to find that this tournament was using only three decks!!! I love getting to choose from one debuff and getting zero enlist.

I really dislike the the three sealed deck and would prefer to see five sealed decks used in every sort of sealed game. If I get no good cards to choose from in a five card sealed deck, I would be really unlucky. But all of Geral's bitching has a point: in three card sealed deck games your odds of getting an absolutely rotten deck are way too high. But the fact that the qualifier uses only three sealed decks is just shameful. I don't even want to try to get into that qualifier again if I'm going to have to be playing a three sealed deck game, especially if my deck is the same throughout.

The thing about sealed deck games, is that it is about giving each player average cards (rather than elite cards in a constructed deck game) and seeing who can do best with that average selection. Yet I feel that the winner of sealed deck games too often has to do with the luck of the draw in a really small pool of cards, and in tournaments this luck is determined from the beginning and is set throughout. Sealed deck tournaments should be double-elimination, five sealed packs, with a new pool of cards each game, if the goal is to properly determine the best player. The first three players eliminated from the qualifier, all in under 10 turns: myself, witcher, and mytho... three players who only had 30 cards to pick from and each had a horrible draw. I really don't think the best player today is winning this tournament, its already clear that too much luck is involved in a single-elimination, three pack sealed deck tournament.


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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:33 pm 
Battle Dex Testing Team
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3 packs are 24 cards, not 30 ;) . Sealed tournaments are 3 packs, super sealed are 5.

Did you hear witcher complaining or are you just guessing? What I saw was Witcher saying to UncleMario "well played" .

Chrism already explained why they want same cards for whole tournament.

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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:48 pm 
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If you have a large enough pool, same cards througout tourney is not as much of an issue. But you are also correct, it is only 24 cards.

There are 176 cards in the game, and I get a pool of only 24, which can include duplicates! Don't you love getting three lethal fighter cards when you don't want to bring any lethal troops of any sort?

Here is a key issue that I think people are missing. Now I haven't been told this, but it is clear that the prices cards cost in gold is based on a constructed deck game. For instance, if you brought enlist arty (90g) and firepower (50g) that would give you a lethal arty for 140g. A lethal arty card by itself costs 165g. The reason for this increase is obvious: you get an extra spot to bring a different card.

The problem is that with only 24 random cards to pick from, its simply not worth 25g to free up an extra card slot, because the last few cards I pick are often not very good and I just take them because I have space. I would much prefer enlist arty and firepower card. Not only do I save 25g on the total purchase, but I don't have to use the firepower card right away. In constructed, I may consider the lethal arty, because I could fill that extra card slot with a debuff, heal, minor art, or some other good card, but when my pool is so small.

It is way too clear what the best cards in a sealed deck game are, but that is partly because the pool is so small. If the pool was larger, I may consider bringing the lethal arty because I have another card I want to bring, but the winner of sealed most often comes down to who has more enlist and debuff cards. The goal should be to remove luck factor and increase skill factor when possible. A 24 card pool is a radical choice in the direction of luck factor, unless the prices in gold were adjusted, but thats just too complicated. It is so much simpler to increase the pool.

As for what tournament is technically a super sealed vs regular sealed. How can a qualifier not have the larger format? If I happen to get into a qualifier, and wake up early saturday morning ready to play, then get knocked out round 1 because its single elimination and I had a tiny selection of cards that sucked, why would I want to qualify for this tournament again? This wasn't exciting this morning. There was no close, intense game. One bad set of cards for me, one good set of cards for my opponent, 8 turns and see ya. Completely not worth all the playing I did this last week to get into this. I need to get more rounds and more cards for my dollar in a qualifier tournament.


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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:06 pm 
Battle Dex Testing Team
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You lost in first round, so changing cards between rounds would not help you to play more :) .

Only way to get that, is to have swiss system in qualifiers. I dont think developers want to do that, but I am for it. Also swiss system isnt yet implemented.

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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:16 pm 
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fewar wrote:
You lost in first round, so changing cards between rounds would not help you to play more :) .


As I said, "If you have a larger pool, same cards throughout tourney is not as much of an issue."


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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:51 pm
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The other, imho better way, to improve this situation would be, to equalize the strength of cards more. As you said, right now, it is all about Enlists, Debuffs, Mercs and maybe a nice Hero.

If there wouldn't be a huge pool of terrible cards, which are outstanding bad, 3deck-sealed would be again more even. You have to adopt much more, but if the overall quality is equal, it comes again down, to who is able to get the better out of his cards. Sure you could run into some "imba" combos, but the probability is much smaller then right now, that a pool of terrible cards faces a pool of good ones.

I think, it should be possible for the Devs to see cardpickstatistics, how often each card is picked, when available, in sealed. It most likely will come down to smth like EnlistInf 100%, NoFlyZone 75%, TechRecon0%.

This would be a very good startingpoint to think about, which cards should need changed, so this deckdomination in sealed can be stopped. (it matters less in constructed, shitcards just dont get played there, even though it reduces the options for players, so even for constructed, it would be an improvement)


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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:18 pm
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Very good insight. Cards that are picked 0% need to be improved for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Agreed mahrgell, but remember that the card strength is most likely based on its capability in a constructed deck game. What cheap combos may be abused if a certain card is too cheap probably factors into card cost.

However, I really like your point about whether or not they can see how often a card is picked. Suppose that a card, such as your tech recon, is barely - if ever - picked in both sealed and constructed, then, as Geral says, the card needs to be improved.


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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:02 pm
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Mario won tournament with a B deck.

All cards were not made for sealed. Construction crew, last line, are horrible in sealed, but great in coops.

I don't think there is a deck domination problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Sealed Deck Tourneys
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:10 am 
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Here is the only thing I don't understand Chrism....

Qualifier > Super Grand Sealed

If Super Grand Sealed uses a five pack selection, why doesn't the bigger more important tournament do as well?


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